Comments on: In defense of Ajax for the iPhone http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/ A blog by Ryan Breen of Gomez Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:45:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Ajax Performance » Back at full strength, playing catch up http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-13491 Ajax Performance » Back at full strength, playing catch up Mon, 20 Aug 2007 03:18:38 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-13491 [...] made a bit of hay pre-iPhone release by playing iPhone Ajax apologist. Two months in, how do I feel? Well, I’m still hopeful that iterative improvements to iPhone [...] [...] made a bit of hay pre-iPhone release by playing iPhone Ajax apologist. Two months in, how do I feel? Well, I’m still hopeful that iterative improvements to iPhone [...]

]]> By: Ryan Breen http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-10496 Ryan Breen Wed, 04 Jul 2007 03:42:39 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-10496 Lars, Thanks for the response. I was totally wrong about Webkit phones -- I thought the previous Nokia devices were not in a phone form factor. The iPhone differs with multi-touch, a huge screen on a phone-sized device, and a smattering of the ol' Jobs RDF. My point is that while lacking an SDK will limit development from certain capabilities (and I would never suggest that those be added in via DOM extensions), the vitality, low barriers to entry, and rapid deployment model will enable orders of magnitude more apps to be developed for the iPhone than for other mobile devices. There may be some niches that are not well served (or served at all) by third parties, but I expect the iPhone to create its own networked killer app by virtue of its access to such a vibrant space. Lars,
Thanks for the response. I was totally wrong about Webkit phones — I thought the previous Nokia devices were not in a phone form factor. The iPhone differs with multi-touch, a huge screen on a phone-sized device, and a smattering of the ol’ Jobs RDF.
My point is that while lacking an SDK will limit development from certain capabilities (and I would never suggest that those be added in via DOM extensions), the vitality, low barriers to entry, and rapid deployment model will enable orders of magnitude more apps to be developed for the iPhone than for other mobile devices. There may be some niches that are not well served (or served at all) by third parties, but I expect the iPhone to create its own networked killer app by virtue of its access to such a vibrant space.

]]> By: LarsG http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-10494 LarsG Wed, 04 Jul 2007 02:57:06 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-10494 iPhone is not the first with a Webkit browser. As far as I know, it is indeed the first with both Webkit and multitouch interaction. And kudos for Apple getting the iPhone out, it will make the other manufacturers take a long overdue look at their UIs. As for 'real smartphones' with a 'real SDK', you don't generally develop an app for a single device. You develop for a certain platform. Like Nokia's S60 3rd. edition which at the current count is 29 devices. And unless you need access to APIs that are only delivered by the native SDK, you can always use J2ME. What I really don't get is why less is touted as more. While it is true that web apps can replace some native apps, it won't replace all of them. Lack of a native SDK (or heck, even J2ME) will severely limit what 3rd party developers can do on the platform. (Oh, and expanding the scripting objects in the browser to the point where you don't need a native SDK is inviting the kind of security problems we saw with that abomination named ActiveX.) When I first heard that the iPhone would run OSX I was thrilled, mostly because there is a real lack of a really good smartphone OS out there. Compared to a scaled down PC OS, there are some idiosyncrasies and lack of functionality in the mainstream smartphone OSes. Symbian and WM work, but they are top-heavy embedded OSes. Apple would score big with 3rd party developers if they opened up iPhOSX. iPhone is not the first with a Webkit browser. As far as I know, it is indeed the first with both Webkit and multitouch interaction. And kudos for Apple getting the iPhone out, it will make the other manufacturers take a long overdue look at their UIs.

As for ‘real smartphones’ with a ‘real SDK’, you don’t generally develop an app for a single device. You develop for a certain platform. Like Nokia’s S60 3rd. edition which at the current count is 29 devices. And unless you need access to APIs that are only delivered by the native SDK, you can always use J2ME.

What I really don’t get is why less is touted as more. While it is true that web apps can replace some native apps, it won’t replace all of them. Lack of a native SDK (or heck, even J2ME) will severely limit what 3rd party developers can do on the platform.

(Oh, and expanding the scripting objects in the browser to the point where you don’t need a native SDK is inviting the kind of security problems we saw with that abomination named ActiveX.)

When I first heard that the iPhone would run OSX I was thrilled, mostly because there is a real lack of a really good smartphone OS out there. Compared to a scaled down PC OS, there are some idiosyncrasies and lack of functionality in the mainstream smartphone OSes. Symbian and WM work, but they are top-heavy embedded OSes. Apple would score big with 3rd party developers if they opened up iPhOSX.

]]> By: 3kbo » Blog Archive » Migrating an existing application to the iPhone and the Semantic Web http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-10338 3kbo » Blog Archive » Migrating an existing application to the iPhone and the Semantic Web Sun, 01 Jul 2007 21:57:34 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-10338 [...] Breen pretty well sums it up in his article In defense of Ajax for the iPhone when he writes “In a few years I expect all mobile devices to provide the same browsing [...] [...] Breen pretty well sums it up in his article In defense of Ajax for the iPhone when he writes “In a few years I expect all mobile devices to provide the same browsing [...]

]]> By: Ryan Breen http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9862 Ryan Breen Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:13:57 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9862 Joost, You're right, I did understate how well <a href="http://www.musingsfrommars.org/2007/06/safari-30-blazes-trail-for-css-30.html" rel="nofollow">Safari 3 is doing with CSS3</a>. Great stuff for iPhone developers! Joost,

You’re right, I did understate how well Safari 3 is doing with CSS3. Great stuff for iPhone developers!

]]> By: Elroy Jetson » In Defense of iPhone “SDK” http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9837 Elroy Jetson » In Defense of iPhone “SDK” Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:17:06 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9837 [...] was reading Ajaxian this morning.  They had published a link to a post titled In defense of Ajax for the iPhone.  It’s a good read so check it out first.I basically don’t understand the need for a [...] [...] was reading Ajaxian this morning.  They had published a link to a post titled In defense of Ajax for the iPhone.  It’s a good read so check it out first.I basically don’t understand the need for a [...]

]]> By: Ryan Breen http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9829 Ryan Breen Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:05:17 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9829 alek, You are missing the point. Opera Mobile relies on the 'handheld' CSS media and other cues to reformat the page for a mobile device. The iPhone is the first (to my knowledge) to provide a display and interaction model equivalent to what you would use on the desktop. By making Ajax the development model for the iPhone, they are doing something revolutionary: bringing the web to the phone without making it some hobbled mobile web offering. Ryan alek,

You are missing the point. Opera Mobile relies on the ‘handheld’ CSS media and other cues to reformat the page for a mobile device. The iPhone is the first (to my knowledge) to provide a display and interaction model equivalent to what you would use on the desktop. By making Ajax the development model for the iPhone, they are doing something revolutionary: bringing the web to the phone without making it some hobbled mobile web offering.

Ryan

]]> By: alek http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9828 alek Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:59:30 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9828 all these "firsts" are just apple mythology. (or should we call it marketing?) they are not the first with a web browser on a cell phone and they did not invent the mp3 player. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)#Opera_for_devices http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3_player#History don't drink the koolaid all these “firsts” are just apple mythology. (or should we call it marketing?) they are not the first with a web browser on a cell phone and they did not invent the mp3 player.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_(web_browser)#Opera_for_devices

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3_player#History

don’t drink the koolaid

]]> By: Todd http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9823 Todd Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:20:39 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9823 I know of at least two highly paid, professional code writers that are furious that AJAX is the new SDK. They both are accustom to bidding hundreds of thousands of dollars for code work ( C++ ), saying the project will take months, only to be underbid by someone who does it in a few hours for 1/100th of the price using AJAX and Ruby on Rails. Yes the future of development for not just the iPhone, but for all software is plain old AJAX with some form of off-line storage ( Google Gears or whatever ) "Evolve or die" I know of at least two highly paid, professional code writers that are furious that AJAX is the new SDK. They both are accustom to bidding hundreds of thousands of dollars for code work ( C++ ), saying the project will take months, only to be underbid by someone who does it in a few hours for 1/100th of the price using AJAX and Ruby on Rails.

Yes the future of development for not just the iPhone, but for all software is plain old AJAX with some form of off-line storage ( Google Gears or whatever )

“Evolve or die”

]]> By: Joost de Valk http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9811 Joost de Valk Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:07:38 +0000 http://www.ajaxperformance.com/2007/06/24/in-defense-of-ajax-for-the-iphone/#comment-9811 WebKit is one of the best browsers for CSS3 out there, it provides quite a few more css3 features than you listed now :) WebKit is one of the best browsers for CSS3 out there, it provides quite a few more css3 features than you listed now :)

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